NBN missing from ALP costings
- 02 September, 2010 07:18
- Comments 24
Despite promises made by Prime Minister, Jullia Gillard, a proper costing of the Labor party’s proposed National Broadband Network (NBN) is missing from Treasury documents delivered to the three independent MPs deciding the potential formation of a minority government.
The documents, leaked to press by independent MP for Lyne, Rob Oakeshott, reveal the full Treasury costings of policies from both the Coalition and Labor parties.
Notably, Treasury costings of Coalition policies reveal that the cancellation of the NBN would save the government $900 million in public debt interest savings in the budget over four years if they do win government.
However, no mention is made of the NBN in Labor documents, despite promises made by Gillard.
“Mr Abbott has sought access to a full costing of the Minerals Resource Rent Tax and the National Broadband Network,” she told media at her National Press Club address on Friday, 27 August. “I’ve advised Mr Abbott that those full costings are disclosed in the Pre-Election Fiscal Outlook, but if he seeks to have a briefing from Treasury and Finance for a more detailed assessment of those Budget figures then of course that will be made available to him.”
The outlook, released by the Treasury in July, indicates a provision of $18.3 billion in forward estimates for the rollout of the network, but the document itself conceded that “the exact timing and quantum of Government funding” would only be determined once a final response to the NBN Implementation Study is released by the government and the non-binding Financial Heads of Agreement between NBN Co and Telstra is finalised.
An economic analysis of the costings presented in the outlook by the Australian Parliament House Parliamentary Library shot holes in the costings, finding only $16.842 billion of committed funding in Budget forward estimates, and a $5.5 billion shortfall in the $22.4 billion committed equity recommended in the NBN Implementation Study to be injected by year 5 of the project, or 2014.
Gillard pre-empted the leaking of the Treasury costings from the independents.
“I have indicated to Mr Abbott that it is my view that the Independents should be able to participate in these briefings, what they say publically about the information obtained is then a matter for them.”
She later told the independents directly to release the costings.
"At the end of those briefings, it is my intention to ask the independents if the costings of government policies prepared at their request ... can be released publicly," she said on the day the MPs received financial briefings from the Secretary of the Treasury department, Dr Ken Henry.
"We want to be transparent, we believe those costings should be released publicly."
The cost of the Labor’s broadband initiative has come under constant scrutiny since announcement, with a ceiling figure of $43 billion criticised by the Liberal party as “reckless” and a “white elephant”. The cost has also lead some to proffer cheaper alternatives, such as that presented recently by the Alliance for Affordable Broadband.
Both communications minister, Stephen Conroy, and NBN Co chief executive, Mike Quigley, insist the figure is an absolute ceiling and doesn’t reflect total cost, both have been apprehensive in presenting a real cost.
The government has injected some $662 million on the project so far in both operational expenditure and capital expenditure, setting up the wholesaler and completing the first stage of rollouts in Tasmania.
Quigley has recently indicated the project would require a peak government equity investment of $27 billion - $1 billion more than the figure estimated by consultants in the NBN Implementation Study - with additional debt funding of approximately $10 billion, and potential operational revenue the company generates as the network is rolled out.
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Comments
Hutch
My oh My, how Labor Lies..."Of course we want it to be made public" --- Gillard doesn't hold a very high opinion of Australian's mental faculties if she expects us to buy that line of manure. Where has the transparancy been to date on any of this? Torpedo NBN 2.0, send Conroy back to whatever idiot thing he was doing before he fell into the communication minister role, and let the Real Julia go back to courting voters in Bogan'ville, Vic instead of trying to hoodwink the entire nation.
Raymond
Got it in one Hutch! and Ken Henry said yesterday re the difference in costings.....We used a different interest rate, when asked what rate he said I cannot tell you!
Henry... the great protector of long hairy nose rodents, obviously has Gillard in mind to protect as well.
The sooner we change this pack of lying sons and daughters of B....... the better of this country!
D Newman
HMM turning that last post about face, I would suspect that there is a number of liberals chanting "You Fat B...., You Fat B..." while pointing and waving sharp objects around, and a certain Joe sweating more than usual today.
Lets face both sides are lying cheating buggers, I believe its called being a politician.
glengyron
The reason the NBN isn't in the election costings is rather self evident: It's official government policy and has been so for years.
The election costings given by Treasury relate only to policies launched during the election period.
I feel embarrassed for you.
Daniel
there is more documentation out there regarding the nbn and it's (potential maximum) costs, that all of the coalitions policies/costings combined!
the current nbn costing is a 'maximum' ceiling cost.
the deal with telstra is designed to bring those costs down, and the deal hasn't been completed yet, so how does anyone expect Labor to proivde final costsings. That not how it works.
Any it was Labor that insisted on making all costsings etc public - I think if they has something to hide, they would have gave it to some 3rd party accountant company (ummm.... like coalition did!)
Raymond
@4 Do you have any bloody idea what you are on about! are you saying NBN is not policy!
Of course the NBN is not in the costings, it is off the balance sheet! any idea what that means, it would be there for all to see if the modelling had been done.....but NOOOOOOOO, it would be there if the business plan was made available,but, NOOOOOOOO no business plan, no modelling.what planet have you been visiting? or did I not hear Gillard, rant and Rave about the NBN during the election.
@Daniel, still at your childish idiot best I see! A maximum ceiling cost, there is no such thing, you fool,So you are saying after three years labor do not know what the cost are! if they don't know what the costs are, they don't know what to charge therefore! The Telstra deal had nothing what so ever to do with bringing down the build costs....you moron
As I had to explain something simple last time to you I think it was 1+1=2 so here we go again, Daniel you do a financial model, you build a business plan around that model, and then you go and build against the budget cost, keep watching the wiggles and Dr Phil for the meaning of life, it may dawn on you by the time we have a NBN!
RS
Raymond here’s a ‘free” tip for you...
Why don’t you try, “even just once, to have a thought of your own”, instead of having the Liberal party think for you? Novel idea and unheard of, for you I know! But…
Seriously, we do not need blind, worthless, illiterates, with Abbott’s hand up their back, repeating in parrot fashion, endless Lib propaganda/FUD. Gee look, you can even talk while Tony’s drinking a glass of water…!
So, in future if we want to hear the Libs take on absolutely every tech issue herein, we will simply log into Liberal.org, to see what they (and of course, in turn, absolutely everything YOU) have to say.
As such, be-gone, insignificant dunce…!
Comrade
Obviously the NBN costs are far beyond the $43 billion estimates that the taxpayer will have to pay for. My guess is $80+ billion.
RS
@8...
Where is your proof? We aren't interested in your guess (which coincidentally is the same as Peter's guess... LOL).
Put up or shut up!
RS
@#1...
Hutch, speaking about lies and liars, please tell us why the liar known as Tony Abort, LIED about his up to $11b costings blackhole...which explains why he tried his best to suppress his rubbery figures...
LOL...!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comrade
@ RS,
Where is the fully transparent costings for the NBN?
Projects that have poorly managed figures, generally end up costing double, hence the $80+ billion.
Raymond
@9 Hey, Cockroach Droppings, where is the financial modelling, where is the business plan, you prove we are wrong!
@10 the only black hole here is you! you would fit the Ken Henry mould defender of the hairy long nose rodent, looks after you does here!
RS
http://bigpondnews.com/articles/TopStories/2010/09/02/Wilkie_to_side_with_Labor_508105.html
Breaking news...!
Raymond
Been out for days, we all knew what that turd would do! only means another election, no big deal, we clean them out then for good!
RS
@#12. LOL....I whistle and old Rover comes a runnin'...LOL!!!
Gee you mentioned #9 Raymond, with you typical bogan-like, idiot persona. Were you corresponding with me?
Yes yes, cockroach droppings (whatever idiot, same old despearte cover-ups) sigh...
But I thought you were never going to coreespond with me ever again? Yet you mention my comments numbers, speaking of LIARS..?
Anyway, here -
http://www.zdnet.com.au/43bn-nbn-not-so-back-of-the-envelope-339302911.htm
Now idiot, where's anything at all from you...?
Ga ga ga... that's you "again" choking on my ****, beatch! My you are getting good at it with so much practice.
RS
@#11...
Apologies Comrade, in having a bit of fun with whistle and choke boy, I inadvertently overlooked your question.
Same URL (for starters)
http://www.zdnet.com.au/43bn-nbn-not-so-back-of-the-envelope-339302911.htm
For special mention from within - " Twelve months ago, the government committed to investing in a $43 billion NBN. The study confirms that the company will generate sufficient earnings by the end of year seven so that the government's recommended investment peaks at $26 billion."
Den
I tried to post a reply to the anti NBN croud but ended up just shaking my head and giving up.
Why are the same lies/misinformation continually repeated and they don't even try to check.
If I see a 'report' which reached some odd conclusion I usually try and see who paid for the report and then everything usually becomes clear, so the question I an trying to answer is what are the anti NBN croud getting out of it.
Of course Australia can afford the NBN just see some of the amounts theat the Government spends on funy plans.
RS
@11... I'm a little surprised that you haven't commented about the research you asked for and I kindly supplied you.
I can understand that Raymond is too small and/or biased, too accept it, and/or too stupid to comprehend it. But I am still awaiting his typical, (when as he always is... proven wrong) go on the bluff and bluster attack...LOL
But I thought you may have at least said something? That is of course, unless...???
Lucas
Wow, this blog is funny. Seems like NBN has become the new climate change - anyone who disagrees with it is a heretic and must be in the pocket of some right wing big business mob. What rubbish, the facts here are pretty clear.
1. Most big govt schemes run over the original estimates.
2. In particular this labor government has demonstrated a level of financial incompetence that is boggling. Pink bats, computers in schools and the school halls program together have wasted billions. That's BILLIONS... They could have had the same economic impact but been delivered properly had it been done the right way so the argument that they saved us from recession is not good enough (nor, according to the latest financial analyses is it true)
3. Most of the current labor goverments policy promises from the last election have not been met. Superclinics, trades colleges in schools, fixing hospitals, computers in schools... the list goes on.
Given this record, it's more than a good bet that the NBN under labor will cost a great deal more and won't be delivered effectively or on time. To suggest they have the skills to do so is ignorance, not liberal party propoganda.
One fact most commentors miss here also is that the NBN plan does rely on a portion of private investment. But with the ROI analysis on the project looking the way it does how many businesses will sustain an interest in this project? And if business doesn't chip in what happens then? The goverment has to pick up the shortfall? Massive, Massive blowouts should be expected here. To make the infrastructure analogy, it is indeed like putting a 4 lane highway out the front of every home in Australia whether they want or need it, or not.
Anyone can spend big, but a good government respects the tax dollars that we provide them and delivers on sound workable policies - something the Rudd/Gillard government demonstrably have not done.
RS
Welcome Lucas, seems the blog has gotten even funnier since you arrived, but rest assured you aren't alone...
However you are banging the exact same, baseless, drum and sound no different, with those same old tired arguments, that the others with their HIS (heads in sand) keep regurgitating too! Unless of course...?
So thanks for your opinion and here's a bit of reading for you from those who should actually know -
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/tech/7655521/nbn-co-boss-claims-network-costs-fluid/
http://www.zdnet.com.au/43bn-nbn-not-so-back-of-the-envelope-339302911.htm
Funny too that you should mention - "Anyone can spend big, but a good government respects the tax dollars that we provide them and delivers on sound workable policies".
Exactly why Andrew Wilkie chose Labor over Coalition - in relation to Abbotts 1,000,000,000 pieces of silver/pork barelling blood money (pun intended) for the Royal Hobart hospital - here's what he said...
..."this was an 'extraordinarily generous offer', three times the amount of money Tasmania would probably get through a new round of health and hospital funding.
'I think this is an example of where seeking a more modest amount but being more conscious of proper process, and more conscious of equity, so that hospitals around the country can benefit from $1.8 billion is a much more ethical way to go than simply just grabbing a $1 billion for Tasmania,' he said. {END}
LOL...!
Pierre
who won ? how's Barnaby ?
re Joyce:
NBN core values
From the NBN co home page, whats the NBN values in the continued deceit.. Where is their invisible board..
WE ENGENDER TRUST AND INTEGRITY:
1. We are up-front, honest and transparent - internally and externally – "and act in NBN Co’s best interest" (*my italics).
2. We involve and treat others with respect
3. We are responsive and do what we say we will
*Clearly the need for value 1, outwieghs the other 2 values.
Basically NBNco is a collusion of deceit with a Minister who is talked about openly globally as a clown taken down by the vendors, now about to bring down a government.
The Board, where is the Board in this...
Well like Kaiser the main in charge of public and community relations (he has form too, convicted by the criminal misconduct commission) - the NBN Board is silent, invisible..
Some tier 2's from Mckinsey, a tier 2 from a vendors, legal firms, and backroom professional board muppets.
No integrity or public accountability forthcoming there.
btw go have a look its funny.
They all look like they are under a Royal Commission spotlight.
Nero
i read the nbn is going to have proximity and ip inspection.
And information that doesnt have IP addressing or packets that cant be opened and matched to your user/IP address will be rejected. And also the ISP can keep all your data forever
DOES that mean VPN or IP switching or masking wont work
What about cypher - howyou pass cyphered data if they are chekcing your right into data as well. i thought this was mean to be a layer 1 access network not checking all the end user and data on it as well.
anyone out there know what the story ?
Raymond
@ 19 Lucas, be ever so careful accepting anything from that sewer dweller RS he is well named......be very careful his preference is young boys! or so he said quite some time ago.
Should of heard the rant and rave he gave a female who challenged some usual droppings of his, you have never seen more spiteful bile and loathing of a female as from this piece of work, he did promise to go away, but I guess rejection even from the young one's made him stop watching Dr Phil and and the lady coming out here, he will be in the front row screaching like somebody who is not allowed to go to Mardi Gras.
Poor old queen, that old tartan robe he wears, the few strands of hair dragged across the fat bald head, sweating as watched Dr Phil searching for the meaning of life!
Be carful lucas dear boy!
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