Report bombs Aussie broadband

Sure the NBN would help this cause but at what cost. I dont believe running optic cable to every doorstep is a viable option. Why can't the government see wireless is taking off and to help this cause we need optic cable to the phone tower relay stations and more of them...?

Funny.. NBN makes it fast...... Internet Filter makes it slow... end result probably the same, except we'll be 50 billion dollars poorer.

@Ryan

The NBN won't be obsolete. NBN is a fundamental infrastructure shift from copper to fibre. Thats why its so expensive.

The data carrying capacity of fibre can greatly exceed the 100Mb that they will be selling initially. Future upgrades to centralised equipment can be done cheaply and will enable much greater speeds than what are initially promised.

The infrastructure that the NBN is built on will not be made obsolete in our lifetime.

It's been said before a few times, Ryan, but just for the record:

With upgrades from time to time, the NBN should be in use for several decades. Wireless technology is improving, but it's hard to see how it could overcome major capacity (bandwidth) and latency problems if it was to form the national broadband network.

Such dense and high capacity usage would choke wireless capability, and even your hypothetical 4/5G example would still bog down and become unusable in high traffic areas. And we haven't even mentioned the possible EMR issues that might emerge.

Leaked doc...

We'll be right, I have come across (don't ask) the opposition's communications policy/NBN alternative -

It consists of 1 lovely shiny can, which has beautiful engraving that says PM Tony and another (of course much smaller) can, which has the words MP Tony, emblazoned across it.

No... there's no string... it's this new fandangled wireless thingy!

I live where wireless is variable at best, only 60km from Melbourne, NBN is the best option in semi-rural near mountains. Poor radio, poor tv, poor wireless, poor facilities, can I least have good internet?

Thanks guys for picking up that mistake, we've fixed to reflect

Cheers

@15 that would be entirely true if they were building the NBN for you, however it isnt, your also confusing Bandwidth with speed also, the speed is a bonus the bandwidth is king.

Its about getting internet to everyone, plus replacing all the life ex copper infrastructure that is now very over due for repalcement, it took a government to build that, its sadly taking a government to replace it, Telstra in their defence could not afford to replace their own network, its a point thats missed on most people.

So what the NBN is really about is replacing all the telco old lines with new ones, and providing a infrastruture capable of operating for 30 years, same idea as when they put all the copper down 50 years ago.

As for personnel costing, no line rental and VOIP+internet, will in most cases equal what most people are paying Telstra just for line rental and calls....Working on the 20 to 30 meg plans that all come with VOIP.

So the real waste here 'idunno' is you have not understood the scope beyond your own needs, but even then have failed to understand what it will really means to you, you get more for the same price and speed your mostly likely on now, plus access to more interactive new services that are bandwidth intensive.

We had a chance to lead the world. Our vacillating politicians blew it...AGAIN.

Conroy for the moment appears to be very well gagged on the issue of the filter, so looking forward to their debate to see if he is goaded into saying why he was so gagged .

But it could well be just another scripted BS chat with no actual heavt debating, that can draw out info.

That said I am waiting to see what the Liberals come out with, and their actual policy view of a filter, and rumour has it they may be tweaking up their Broadband stance, but I have not a pinch but a whole handful of salt for that rumour.

It is such a weak lame election on all fronts, its like watching paint dry, and all that is happening is everything is devolving to grey mush policy wise, so no one deserves to win in my book so far.

I just have a problem with spending $43 billion, and by the way where did they pluck that figure from, on broadband or something just to go faster, when our hospitals,schools, roads and any number of things need fixing before we spend that amount on high tech broadband? That's $2000 for every man, woman and child in Australia, tell that to people who need medical and mental help, our pensioners who exist below the povety line, and many many more social problems. Let's get our prioties right before we invest in something we basically have. Get your priorties right.

$43 billion without a viable business case!!

Who but the irresponsible Rudd/ Gillard Gv't would dream up such a thing???

Coalition solution is NOT all wireless as some seem to assume but a mix of carefully integrated solutions.

@25 correction. Should read - "all these new NBN naysayers/Coalition supporters"...sorry!

Interesting you should say dumb and dumber, I have said likewise @ ZD.

But I have chosen Conroy (firstly because of the NBN) but also because him simply being a "Minister" (pun intended) and Abbott being the Prime Minister (pun intended again), Conroy is the least dangerous of the two, imho...

Who do you think has more clout to introduce their holy policies? A simple minister answerable to the PM or the Prime Minister himself?

I agree Buddy, you can tell people are just falling for sound bytes by the lack of big real policy announcements in the key ministries.

I,ve given up on the Libs actualy releasing a policy on ICT in general let alone Broadband, thus far what has been said makes no sense at all.

But I not just going to lay blame on one side, both are shouting numbers but no one is really believing anything they promise, and if you do, wow are you going to be in a world of disappointment.

Side one, disorganized cant run things without some sort of drama.
Side two, negative as hell and appear to be making policy up on the fly, or like a schoolchild that hasnt done their homework, trying to wing it, hence numbers not meshing.

@KJ Conroy is finished, he is being given awards all over the world for his stupidity(last one was the other week in the UK), he is attracting to much ridicule, so he will moved out of the light..And by the natural proccess of polictics the filter will be water down to some token B/S to keep the right wing bible thumpers happy/deluded.

Dont step into the portal its evil, head to the light etc etc, I was embarresed for him, honestly it was so sad, some IT guys set him up and were falling about the floor behind the podium the day he made that speech.

@30 D. Newman you have made the best comment of any, imo. That being -

"But I'm not just going to lay blame on one side, both are shouting numbers but no one is really believing anything they promise, and if you do, wow are you going to be in a world of disappointment."

This is exactly my point too. Being a swinging voter with no strange allegiances, I know no matter who we get, they will put the boot into us.

And why... well look at Rudd, he tried to give to us - but it all backfired. Free insulation, school upgrades and laptops for our kids. Yes there were those who greedily cut corners and as such put people lives in danger. As such and in hindsight, the government should have had better safe guards.

However, unless you are so anti-Labor you are unable to see reality, you'd have to admit, at least Rudd actually tried. But not only did he not get any thanks for trying...everyone whinged and he was uncerimoniously dumped by his own colleagues!

So as a PM/government, if you are going to be bagged by the constituents and dumped by your own party for "trying to give to the people", guess what we are in for?

@32 RS, you may have been more correct than you realised when you said the govt was "trying to give it to the people".

The programs you mention were well intentioned, but the level of governance that should have applied was simply not there and they all predictably turned into perceived disasters.

But the important thing now, as highlighted by this report, is to focus on what needs to be done to get a national fibre based network in place as soon as possible, so we can start applying vital program deployment and development.

A report is quoted saying australia internet languishes at an atrocious 50th in the world for internet performance and immediately a whole lot of people are making comments about how the nbn is a waste of money (despite the nbn not having even been mentioned in this article).

how many liberal party/telstra apologists are there on this forum? why are some people here supporting the liberal's 'plan' when such a place is yet to have come into existence?

if there is a better plan on how to make australian internet infrastructure break into the top 20 (better DOESN'T mean wireless) i would like to see it.

Most who are on line and tech savvy at all know to what extent optic run out can benefit not only in business but to modernised Jetson houses security and every other aspect to do with needing band width but how many adverse to those that just work normal jobs where they see very little of a PC let alone know anything about what is in them or how they work if it ant' broke don't fix it comes to mind? I piss take a bit lol just like the envelope slag was directed at costing Conroy did to the people the 43 b he just pull out his butt lol sorry there I go again and it is the waste of tax payers money by all governments and how they only look after themselves first and foremost the neglect of our ailing infrastructure to which this NBN would be a benefit? I know all the policies that are put in place with regard to security can be changed at a later date but is the data collection censorship that r the issues that are the biggest barrier that makes most people back track and we will see libs voted in if they don’t debate these facts and stop hiding behind the great religious wall and using child porn as the only excuse. I saw the debate with the sx party and family first and the sx party would have my vote hands down and I would gladly see Fiona Patten be PM. It would however be refreshing to see the two major parties debate with her as there is many things we need to get into they avoid.

Raymond to my knowledge it hasnt become a site for the left, its just become the site of a policy, and untill there is an alternative policy.
Now seeing the sheer chaos thats going on with the Nationals going one way and Libs the other on the subject of the NBN, whatever happens is going to be a bastardise plan to try and appease, and most likely will be vapour post election anyhow.

So to the casual observer I grant you it may appear to be left wing forum, only because the NBN is at present real, there is no alternative, if the Liberals come up with one, I will give it a fair go.
I am not a party supporter I have voted all my life on issues and policy and voted on the day who I saw fit to maintain or improve my way life be it work or home life.
And strangly enough RS your Ad Hoc Nemisis is the same has no firm political leanings, I think you have brought your own agendas here which have made you think this site is againest you, when in fact i,m just againest you because you are very rude and arrogant, not because you vote for one side or the other.

I am all for Australia and in the best interest for all of us, this like many places that are for feedback, another point of view or a sounding board with other like minds, It is nice when the wind swings the way of our own step on the food chain, but life doesn't always revolve around what each individual wants. It would be nice for our vote to really count I would rather not have parties at all and that way it would. One day with the technology in place NBNs and such we might even be able to have more say on policies made, we do now in a way because leaders and politicians tweet and blog or try to keep their staff up to date with a finger on the pulse. I don’t think much of Abbotts proposal because it still gives Telstra the bigger leading hand but we will see how the election goes like I said I would be happy just to see them debate about the issues on the NBN, a sure winner for labour would be no data collection and opt in or out even with their bad record of debt.

Fair point on the Nemisis comment, will retract that, however I disagree with the debt part of your arguement, as I think its been overstated, while the income has been understated.

Telstra migration, plus all ours are migrating due to how we are packaging it, as with several other companies I have dealings with. The math we are looking at is not bad, its not brillant, ie I would be having issues submiting this forecasted return, as a plan, in the private sector.

But it isnt is it, the 7% return figure is looking solid with the figures we have seen, I dont have an issue with the expenditure, with a forecast of surplus return by both parties in 3 years...And thats why I am opposed to a tech being used thats lacklustre on that principle.

The cat 5 and 6 issue is a non issue, the install proceedure takes care of it, wont and cant go into detail, but I know our proceedure is not vastly different to 2 others I know of, and have to leave it at that.
Apart from that there isnt that much else legacy wise to affect it, the plans for new equipment for exchanges for cross overs, but VOIP is expected to be taken up once people get used to it anyway, we certainly are betting hard that way.

I am more than happy to meet in the middle on this, just wish the Liberals would, but see thats me being unfair, they have not said for sure what they are doing yet, but the costing is pure FUD in my book, as the debt is paid off fairly quickly even with just migrations, and average take up.
And the rumours of an HFC heavy plan, for major population centres has me annoyed, I like HFC, but price wise it isnt that different to optic nowadays, used to be 15 years ago, but not now, but you would know that.
But thats why I think there has been such a delay on policy from the Libs as thats going to annoy the living hell out of the Nats.

Lets also not forget that the government is billing itself for services in essence with the roll out to health and education, all those that was supplied by Telstra.
Apart from Tasmania those crazy cats just keep bucking the trends.

And to address your last point, we are edging our bets , of course we are, the bonded tech and our own HFC program, I know Optus has something along those lines as back up also, plus since the release of the dark fibre maps there has also been other discussions, but non of that helps people in the outer burbs or the country and THAT is MY personnel concern.

RS you ruined my Nemisis thing, I had that one lined up.
But you take it, pffft lol.

Really I was going for more ....Cynically Cautiously Centre.

While your have been Right Royaly Rickrolled.

Your right Raymond these 3 words with same begining letters games are such fun.

Pffffft, you obviously need some more coffee input this morning.

LOL yeah sounded like a caffine cry for help the LLL comment.

gnome, it is all about electioneering AND money,this is how the election will kill the NBN.
1..Mining Tax WA and Qld will roart Labor
2..Boat people, Labor as we speak are evicting returned service families from their homes to house boat people, australians don't like that, and will vote against the government
3..Massive Debt and Labor have no clue how to deal with it!
4..Liberal landslide election win
5..Prime Minister Abbott kills NBN because we cannot afford it because of the debt.
6..Mines,Boats, and Debt, kills NBN!

All very straight forward really, the only people you have to blame is Kevin and Julia.

If anyone saw the ABC show about people smugglers they would not agree with labours stance still on trying to set up more in Indonesian asylum centres how stupid are they let alone the aid we give them. This just proved hands down how corrupt it is there with ABCs report about boats and that is just one section of it. Libs have a better record on debt but not for flogging our infrastructure to fund their own future funds for their pensions or how they get out of the debt while Aussie workers pensions were going in the toilet I also have big question over our lead into Iraq where all the leader Bush Blair and Howard all did their photo ops in their churches spruking we go to war with the right intention made it look like a holy war the major parties need a shake up and belief needs to be right out of politics. Before that Howard goes down to Tasmania after the Martin Bryant massacre claims it to be biggest massacre in Australian history they ran more aboriginal off the cliff in a day down there than that, then he disarmed Australia to picked a fight with the Muslims and we have the biggest Muslim nation above us? No Australian signed to go to war a Spanish delegate signed on behalf of the queen so how we get dragged into things also have to be looked at and Australians must know what goes on.

@46 humblest apologies DN.

Next time you have the wounded simpleton in your claws, I promise Ill let you put it out of its misery, LOL...

I now have a bit more respect for the man, Hockey used commonsense now then, lets hear about the rest of the policy please.

Here is what dork boy Conroy said if you missed it lol
http://www.itwire.com/it-policy-news/government-tech-policy/40959-please-explain-conroy-tells-hockey-on-filter